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JinxBM
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« on: May 27, 2014, 09:13:00 pm »

 Okay, so, over the past three days, I've played this game for close to ten hours, and I'm still at the first part (or what I assume to be the first part). Now, don't get me wrong, this game is alright, but...it's ridiculously hard. (Well, not more of hard, just more of lengthy, and not the good kind of lengthy). Now, before you say "Well, you can't make anything as good as this, so you can't talk," I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, I'm just trying to make a few suggestions.

 First things first is the enemies. One minute, I'm walking through a field, destroying goombas and koopa troopas, and then next thing I know, I'm getting slaughtered by Koopa Troopas 5 times the level of the enemies in the room before. I know this is a game you're supposed to play with other people, but wow, even with other people on, I don't think we'd be able to best them.

 Another thing is leveling up. Considering the fact that you lose exp (and sometimes a nice chunk of it) after you die, leveling up is both difficult and tedious (by tedious I mean me killing koopa troopas and goombas over and over again for hours just to level up, since I can't fight anything else without dying in the process.)

 The boss...I just can't. After spending so much time getting to level 8, I'd think I'd be able to at least get him halfway down, but not only did he slaughter me in seconds, but I was too weak to even deal damage to him. Um...yeah...I just spent all that time leveling up, and I didn't even put a scratch on him. A coconutter. (Sorry to be picky about this, but that enemy isn't really a boss...not to mention the fact that if I hadn't gone to the wiki to see what the bosses were, I wouldn't have recognized him as one, considering the fact that the music didn't change when I got to the boss room).

 The items are okay...I just wish there were higher healing items in the toad town shop (so I wouldn't have to stock up on 15 of them before I set out). What would make things A LOT better is if gear didn't require you to have a certain level (Even though the gear, as far as I could tell, didn't really make my character that much stronger).

 I was pretty confused about where I was supposed to go from Toad Town, since there really wasn't any story (that I could tell) to follow or any signs that would've pointed me in the right direction.

 Basically, my suggestions are these:

1. Don't make us lose exp for dying, that's just frustrating and annoying.
2. Add boss music to a room with a boss, so we can tell we're fighting a boss.
3. Add a super shroom at Toad Town, or whatever the next thing after a regular mushroom is.
4. Get rid of the gear restrictions, so we can actually stand a chance against higher level enemies
5. Maybe lower the attack power and health of higher level enemies a bit, just so we don't get slaughtered in seconds.
6. Add a save point to the part where the toad asks you to find his toy, and a warp spell to Toad Town, so we can go back and stock up on items.

 Again, I am absolutely sorry if any of this has offended you at all, it wasn't meant to, I just wanted to point out a few things (Because originally, I was going to record a series on this with my friend, and after playing for ten hours, I looked at this through the eyes of a Youtuber and his audience...and...well...yeah. >_<). I know you guys (the developers) don't have the time to do these suggestions, if you even consider them, but, when you do get the time, and you do actually do some of my suggestions, that would be amazing, it would make this game so much better (in my opinion, that is). Even though I kind of trashed this game with criticism, (sorry again D:), I'll play this game to the very end because I still thinks it's cool Smiley
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 07:12:56 am »

Thanks for your suggestions! I am not offended in the slightest, and any good developer should always be open to constructive criticism such as yours. I'll go through your suggestions:

First, I want you to know that we are aware that the game is a little bit of a grind-fest and a little too difficult at the start; this is a fault on our part.

1. I understand your concern for this, but when the player dies we feel there should be some sort of penalty. Originally we were going to make players lose items, but that was too extreme, so we came up with losing experience points. Over time, we made you lose experience points proportional to your level, lowering the values each time until we and the community felt they were reasonable.

2. This actually does occur; the Green Coconutter is just considered a mid-boss and thus does not have any boss music. Again, this is a fault on our part for not clearly conveying this information.

3. At such an early part of the game, we felt that only Mushrooms and Honey Syrups would suffice. Completing favors, balancing your stats, and getting the best equipment available should help boost you up and defeat the stronger enemies. Remember that you also have Special Attacks, which can be very helpful, at your disposal.

4. The gear restrictions were put in place because players would often have their higher-leveled characters buy extremely good gear from later parts of the game and trade them to their lower-leveled characters, who would then breeze through the game. The level restrictions also help players make informed choices about which pieces of equipment to get based on what they can equip, afford, and need. In short, the level restrictions give players some sense of progression whereas the the lack of level restrictions would cause players to not purchase the lower-leveled gear at all, which actually can delay them from obtaining the higher-leveled gear.

5. We have rebalanced the entire game several times, and this was the best result. Previously, you needed to do a whole lot more leveling since enemies were much more powerful. Now, the enemies are weaker but give slightly less experience, so although it will take a little longer to level up, you actually need to level up fewer times to fare better against them.

6. Looking back, this makes sense. However at this time in development, we were reserving Save Blocks for safe, major areas and had only one at the time, which was Mushroom Town.

By offering suggestions, you show us that you actually like the game and want to see it improve, and I appreciate that! Unfortunately, the game is no longer in development and we cannot implement these. However, I do hope you enjoy what it has to offer!

If you are still having trouble progressing, ask in the Game Help section of the forums and hopefully some more experienced players will give you some good advice! There is also a guide in the Game Discussion board that some players have written up, so check that out too!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 07:14:47 am by Kimimaru » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 03:35:11 pm »

Oh...I didn't know it wasn't in development anymore, I just thought you guys didn't get enough time to work on it. Well, thanks for looking at my suggestions and for the advice Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 06:36:15 pm »

I would love to get on and play with you sometime, although it'll probably be mid-june when school gets out.

To address some things from my viewpoint:

1. 1/8 of your current EXP is taken away... I think. It's not that much, and it depends on how you're farming.
2. The green coconutter and tutankoopa are the only bosses who don't have music in their room
3. Gloomba berries are a good healing item. I believe you can also find a cooking shop to get better healing items before even completing the first section (Koopa Islands), although it's quite a trek from Mushroom Town.
4. Defense is really good if you can build up a lot of it really fast, and probably 50%+ of any character's defense will come from equips. If I had my level 75 give me the level 60 armor from the last area, then it'd make the game way too easy.
5. Defense is your new best friend.
6. From what I recall with conversations long ago with Kimi and some other people, SMBO is exploration-based so that would kind of take the point away. There's also a sewer system a bit later in the game allowing you to navigate around much quicker.

Also, for very efficient farming, check out the "Kiting and Camping" videos in this thread:

http://www.smf4free.com/forums/supermariobrosonline/index.php/topic,1284.0.html

It essentially allows you to kill gloombas at low levels such as level 3-4 if you can abuse some nice farming spots. It also teaches you how to defeat the coconutter while taking barely any hits. The video is actually extremely helpful because the gimmick it teaches you applies to pretty much every enemy in the game given you know the right spots to farm at.

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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 06:48:31 pm »

I get on every now and then, but I'm only level 9. Tongue

Quick question though, if your defense is high enough, will you not take damage from lower level enemies? Even though they deal one damage, it still does take away from my health. (I'm kind of at the point where I'm saving up for level 10 gear, and I don't want to spend loads for mushrooms).

About the coconutter, if you have a bunch of honey syrups with you (or high enough FP), and stand on the bridge, you can fireball him to death without taking any damage. Wink

I'll watch the video, by the way. Smiley



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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 07:48:29 pm »

The lowest amount of damage enemies can deal to you is 1, but if you're in a turn-based battle there's a chance that they can do 0 if you have more Defense than their Attack.
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 12:20:28 am »

Quote
About the coconutter, if you have a bunch of honey syrups with you (or high enough FP), and stand on the bridge, you can fireball him to death without taking any damage. Wink

You can essentially do this without wasting money on FP items if you follow my video. Overall specials are not that good except for the healing ones for extra health and for PvP since trying to hit other players with your basic attack is a huge pain.

And I have tons of level 10-ish alts that I can play on. We could party farm and exp share while beating bosses and doing quests or something.

Also as a tip, you typically don't want to invest in stache or speed. From what I remember they only raise your crit/block chance by 0.4% each, and later you can get a badge which lets you run for days on out without running out of SP for like 3 minutes. In the future you do get some badges which give you minor crit and block chance boosts, which might be helpful if you already have some, but your core stats should be mostly HP and Attack, with enough defense to take only 1-2 damage from enemies.

If you ever get stuck in a maze or something you can always reference this guide, but be wary of looking at equipment charts and the world map if you don't like spoilers: http://www.smf4free.com/forums/supermariobrosonline/index.php/topic,915.0.html
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 12:23:34 am by Penguin4478 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 02:58:25 pm »

The lowest amount of damage enemies can deal to you is 1, but if you're in a turn-based battle there's a chance that they can do 0 if you have more Defense than their Attack.

Darn. Oh well, it's only one damage. Tongue


And I have tons of level 10-ish alts that I can play on. We could party farm and exp share while beating bosses and doing quests or something.

Also as a tip, you typically don't want to invest in stache or speed. From what I remember they only raise your crit/block chance by 0.4% each, and later you can get a badge which lets you run for days on out without running out of SP for like 3 minutes. In the future you do get some badges which give you minor crit and block chance boosts, which might be helpful if you already have some, but your core stats should be mostly HP and Attack, with enough defense to take only 1-2 damage from enemies.

If you ever get stuck in a maze or something you can always reference this guide, but be wary of looking at equipment charts and the world map if you don't like spoilers: http://www.smf4free.com/forums/supermariobrosonline/index.php/topic,915.0.html

Cool. I don't get on as often as I have, (since I've been studying for finals), but I do get on every now and then during the day, it'd be great to experience the game as it should be played with another person. Thanks for the tips, by the way Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 12:58:00 am »

While SMBO is an online RPG, we actually designed the game with single player in mind. So you can enjoy mostly everything the game has to offer by playing alone, barring some minigames and other features.
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2014, 02:36:14 am »

I'm glad you're enjoying the game, JinxBM! To reiterate what Kimimaru said, the fact that you took the time out to send us suggestions shows that you'd like to help make SMBO better, and we really appreciate that! Your suggestions were perfectly reasonable and respectfully presented, and we are not the least bit offended. If you go through the Suggestions board, you'll notice that there are pages and pages of suggestions. We actually still do read and appreciate every single suggestion that gets posted even if the game is no longer in development.

Just to help you understand some of our decisions a little better, SMBO is a fangame with many custom features/concepts but is still heavily based on games in the Mario series. For example, if an enemy has less Attack than your Defense, you will still lose 1 HP because that is how the battle system works in the Mario RPGs. We followed the Mario series very closely yet put our own spin on many game features. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't question our decisions, because you're certainly welcome to do so, but I hope this helps clarify why certain mechanics work the way they do in SMBO.

Of course, many of your concerns were all features custom to SMBO, but I thought this would be good for you to keep in mind as you progress through the game!

Thanks for your feedback!
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 08:19:25 pm »

I'm glad you're enjoying the game, JinxBM! To reiterate what Kimimaru said, the fact that you took the time out to send us suggestions shows that you'd like to help make SMBO better, and we really appreciate that! Your suggestions were perfectly reasonable and respectfully presented, and we are not the least bit offended. If you go through the Suggestions board, you'll notice that there are pages and pages of suggestions. We actually still do read and appreciate every single suggestion that gets posted even if the game is no longer in development.

Just to help you understand some of our decisions a little better, SMBO is a fangame with many custom features/concepts but is still heavily based on games in the Mario series. For example, if an enemy has less Attack than your Defense, you will still lose 1 HP because that is how the battle system works in the Mario RPGs. We followed the Mario series very closely yet put our own spin on many game features. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't question our decisions, because you're certainly welcome to do so, but I hope this helps clarify why certain mechanics work the way they do in SMBO.

Of course, many of your concerns were all features custom to SMBO, but I thought this would be good for you to keep in mind as you progress through the game!

Thanks for your feedback!

I'm glad that you guys aren't offended at all by my criticism.  Usually, when someone has spent a lot of time and hard work onto something (as I'm sure you guys have), and then some random guy comes along and criticizes it (especially at the length mine was), the usual reaction is hatred. I understand why you guys made the features you did, it was just that I was really hoping to do a Youtube series on this with my friend, but after seeing how long it takes to level up and how much time you have to spend doing it...yeah, it would kind of be a boring series (Once again, no offense Tongue). Also, for the least amount of damage an enemy does to you, I was just wondering, because I used to be part of a Mario mmorpg a long time ago, and they had it so if your defense was higher, they couldn't do any damage, and it was built with the same engine (or at least, I'm pretty sure it was).
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2014, 05:18:28 pm »

You can actually level fairly quickly up to around 20 or so. I call the farming period between level 20-35-ish the "dead zone" because that's honestly the hardest time to farm. You're forced to farm enemies that are much lower level than you because the ones that give you good EXP all aggro on you, and it's overall just a humongous pain. The place that's best for farming at that level range is also the place that no one even bothers going to anymore and is the farthest from any form of civilization: you have no shop and it's unbelievably far from Mushroom Town.

I'd say that farm goombas until level 3 and rush only stat points into attack, then as soon as possible buy your first weapon from the item store. At this point you should have somewhere around 4-5 attack, and then you can kill lakitus using the strategy shown in my camping/farming video, and each lakitu gives 8 EXP when you only need 70 or so to get to level 4. After you get to level 5 or so and only rush attack then you can start farming gloombas in the sewer using camping strategies until you reach around level 9 or so, and gloombas give 17 EXP and you need 250-ish to get to level 8 or 9. If you do it right you can actually reach level 10 in an hour or so. Just rush only attack until level 7/8, then you can slowly invest in defense, but you should still rely on equipment for most of your defense.
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2014, 06:16:30 pm »

You can actually level fairly quickly up to around 20 or so. I call the farming period between level 20-35-ish the "dead zone" because that's honestly the hardest time to farm. You're forced to farm enemies that are much lower level than you because the ones that give you good EXP all aggro on you, and it's overall just a humongous pain. The place that's best for farming at that level range is also the place that no one even bothers going to anymore and is the farthest from any form of civilization: you have no shop and it's unbelievably far from Mushroom Town.

I'd say that farm goombas until level 3 and rush only stat points into attack, then as soon as possible buy your first weapon from the item store. At this point you should have somewhere around 4-5 attack, and then you can kill lakitus using the strategy shown in my camping/farming video, and each lakitu gives 8 EXP when you only need 70 or so to get to level 4. After you get to level 5 or so and only rush attack then you can start farming gloombas in the sewer using camping strategies until you reach around level 9 or so, and gloombas give 17 EXP and you need 250-ish to get to level 8 or 9. If you do it right you can actually reach level 10 in an hour or so. Just rush only attack until level 7/8, then you can slowly invest in defense, but you should still rely on equipment for most of your defense.

Alright, I'll try it out. Thanks. Smiley
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