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Super Mario Bros. Online => Game Discussion => Topic started by: Kimimaru on April 14, 2012, 07:47:11 pm



Title: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Kimimaru on April 14, 2012, 07:47:11 pm
Hello everyone! We're currently in the process of improving the Stache stat, and we'd like your suggestions for how it can be improved!

Some ideas hydra and I came up with:

-A chance of finding a random item on the floor. The rarity of the item and the chance of finding an item increases as your Stache stat increases
-When attacking, a chance (that increases with Stache) of getting a "buff," like a free Special Attack, or increased Defense for a while - NOTE: This one is currently impossible with our current buff system, so it can be disregarded

Note that increasing enemy item drops would ultimately ruin the rarity of items like cards, and increasing the damage Critical Hits do would be improving the Critical Hit Chance stat more than Stache.

Thanks you for your time, and I hope we can all work together to find a suitable and reasonable improvement to the Stache stat!


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: MrL300 on April 14, 2012, 07:52:09 pm
Everytime you increase stache 2 times, if your using mario or luigi, your stache will grow by a pixel.

(This is met to be a joke. ;P but it'd be funny if you did that)


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Randy on April 14, 2012, 07:53:24 pm
MMMmmm! Stach Affecting item's, now THAT'S something I could sink my teeth into! Also, A suddjestion. It would be nice if the enemy's could drop More than just 1 of the same item When you increase stach a handful of point's. Such as goomba's dropping 3 Herb's instead of one (Basically beginner's luck). Hope you like this kimi.  ;)


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Garro on April 14, 2012, 08:51:53 pm
What about, the more stache you have, the less exp you lose when you die. Kinda like the LUK stat in MapleStory and other similar MMORPGs.

It could also work with badges, for example, a badge that haves 0.3*(Stache) percent of restoring 3HP at the start of a battle.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Ace on April 14, 2012, 10:05:51 pm
I think the every upgrade of your stache should raise your crit. hit rate a little more than it currently is. Also, what about adding extra bonuses to items that heal hp and/or fp that makes them increase the amount they heal more and make the likelyhood of getting theese bonuses based off of your Stache.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: jdaster64 on April 14, 2012, 11:16:52 pm
STACHE and crit rate both deserve the boost of critical hits doing double damage, IMO; there's a massive difference between giving 50% more damage and having damage taken be completely nullified.

But I digress; at any rate, finding random items would be nice, although perhaps you should make that start at 5 or so STACHE, so you don't automatically have that chance without leveling it up some first.  Reducing EXP loss from enemy deaths would be nice as well.  And regardless of whether crits are changed to 2x, I agree that STACHE needs a higher crit rate increase per point (0.5 at minimum).


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Penguin4478 on April 15, 2012, 11:19:42 am
Here are a few suggestions for this:
1. Why not use my idea where if you equip a special badge or something critical hits have added effects?
2. Completing favors with different amounts of stache can yield different, and hopefully better rewards. EX: A quest gives you 500 coins upon completion at default 0 stache. By having 10 stache you gain 600 coins, 20-700 coins, 25-800 coins, etc...
3. By random chance when buying things from the store, the store owner may be generous and give you random discounts on their items. It'll be a % discount with a % chance of occurring where the % = (number of stache points)(0.5)(number of items bought)(0.2). The % discount is equal to 0.8*(Current Stache points).
4. Stache also enables "Lucky hits" which are just like critical, except they deal 2.2x damage rather than 1.5x damage. The chance of Lucky hits = |(0.4)(Stache points)(Difference in yours and the enemies level[If this yields a 0, it automatically becomes 1])|/3
This formula has a few important things. [] = sidenotes / = Division | = Absolute value (If the enemy is higher level than it'll become a negative number, so you need this. It also shows that lucky hits have a higher chance of appearing if you're under the enemy's level or above it.)


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Ace on April 15, 2012, 11:26:15 am
Quote
4. Stache also enables "Lucky hits" which are just like critical, except they deal 2.2x damage rather than 1.5x damage. The chance of Lucky hits = |(0.4)(Stache points)(Difference in yours and the enemies level[If this yields a 0, it automatically becomes 1])|/3
what if the enemy doesn't have a level like a boss or Elite Shy Guy? does that mean you you can't get a lucky hit on them?


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Kimimaru on April 15, 2012, 02:32:32 pm
NOTE: This is for everyone to think about.

Penguin, what we hope to achieve by improving Stache is make the benefits of it as apparent and immediate as the benefits of the other stats. Right now when you increase Stache, you know you'll get more Critical Hit chance and a reduced price at shops, but that's simply not enough to make you want to increase it over another stat.

Compare it with Speed, which greatly helps you in both the Action and Turn-based battle systems by giving Attack Speed, Block Chance, SP, and the ability to outrun enemies. Currently, Stache does not provide comparable assistance in either battle system, and the price reduction at shops can be negated by earning more coins. If we add on something else combat related to Stache (that no other stat offers) that depends solely on how high the stat is, then there will be a good incentive to increase it.

However, I do think it should give slightly more Critical Hit chance. Making Stache grant you less exp loss when you die is a good idea, but I still think it needs more than these 2 ideas.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: jdaster64 on April 15, 2012, 02:36:41 pm
Perhaps it could give you a chance of getting a first strike regardless of whether or not you should actually get one?  Meh, I don't know, the only things I can think of would be drop related, like the random item drops you suggested, or higher coin drops (both of which wouldn't be bad, of course).  Pretty much all important factors of battles are already affected by some stat, and I don't think any of the others should be nerfed to make STACHE better.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Kimimaru on April 16, 2012, 01:06:12 pm
I just thought of a pretty decent idea. How about we introduce a "Lucky" chance?

Whenever you get a Lucky, the damage the attack normally would do to you would be cut in half or by 75%. It'd be sort of like Block Chance, except Lucky would affect Special Attacks (Block doesn't).

Lucky would have a set chance of occuring, barring a few badges that would increase it slightly. There would be a threshold for how much HP you need to have to get a Lucky, and each point in Stache would increase this threshold you need for it to occur.

Here's an example:

Say I have 50 Stache points and 100 max HP with no equipment. My chance of getting a Lucky would be the same even if I had 0 Stache, but with such a high Stache stat I can get a Lucky if my current HP is at or below 70. jdaster hits me with Yoshi Bomb and deals 60 damage, but I get a Lucky and it mitigates it to 30 (or 45) damage instead.

I'm a little hesitant on having Stache be somewhat offensive, defensive, and provide some utility at the same time, but I think it's fair since we can keep the Lucky chance at a decent number and realize that Stache provides only a little of each, not a lot.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: jdaster64 on April 16, 2012, 03:00:13 pm
That seems a bit confusing; is the threshold an upper or a lower bound?  In either case, I'm not sure I care for the idea of an effect being dependent on your current HP (unless it's a Danger/Peril-esque thing), especially a STACHE-related effect.

My verdict: there're too many conditions for that addition to make STACHE any more viable than it already is, in my opinion.  Heck, I don't really increase STACHE for the critical hits as it stands.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Kimimaru on April 16, 2012, 05:34:16 pm
The threshold is an upper bound, so if my current HP is below a certain amount, I'll be able to get a Lucky. Increasing Stache will increase the threshold, enabling me to get a Lucky at higher HP values.

However, I do agree with you that it is a little too dependent on luck.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Penguin4478 on April 16, 2012, 06:51:44 pm
How about a combination of (stache+speed)(0.5) determines your chance of going first in turn-based? Also, maybe stache could give you a counterattack feature, which has the same chance of occurring as your critical hit chance (excluding crit chance from equips). The way I think it would work is that you take the damage, but the enemy also receives 100% the damage you received back onto themselves.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Ace on April 16, 2012, 07:09:57 pm
Quote
How about a combination of (stache+speed)(0.5) determines your chance of going first in turn-based? Also, maybe stache could give you a counterattack feature, which has the same chance of occurring as your critical hit chance (excluding crit chance from equips). The way I think it would work is that you take the damage, but the enemy also receives 100% the damage you received back onto themselves.
I really like theese idea, there's just one problem, going first in turn-based is already detirmined by comparing your speed the enemies.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Penguin4478 on April 16, 2012, 08:06:49 pm
Well, in order to go first you need high speed, which makes sense, but when i came up with that I was thinking luck AND speed would be nice too. So high stache/luck players will still get a good chance of going first. Perhaps stache, rather than speed, boosts your SP regen rate?


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: jdaster64 on April 16, 2012, 09:09:51 pm
I don't think taking away from SPEED's effectiveness will solve anything; in place of SPEED currently being somewhat viable and STACHE not at all, we'll have two kind of "meh" stats, neither of which will be very viable.  Counterattacks sound good in theory, but if you're only taking 1 damage from an enemy, an extra 1 damage back doesn't mean much at all.

I really think that anything STACHE gets buffed with should have nothing to do with what SPEED already affects.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Penguin4478 on April 16, 2012, 10:02:38 pm
As blocks aren't particularly effective on 1 damage hits, and crits typically aren't effective on normal NPCs(crits in the long run can't help you with training), counterattacks shouldn't be either. I find those lucky instances with blocks and crits really help only in PvP, where you're bound to get hit in the higher than 5s.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Medicguy2 on April 16, 2012, 11:59:19 pm
While this does sound nice, it's almost a little too easy that way, since we have a block to negate damage, or at the least mitigate it.

I've noticed some Paper Mario-ish elements and I'd like to suggest one thing: Super-block.

As it would probably imply, it would reflect some damage back on the opponent, while negating all damage (Say 25%, or 50%, of the damage). However, it would work similar to what Kimi has said: It would only work if your hp is low enough to support one of the stats. Since it's an idea for improving the Stache stat, I'll use it as an example, but it's variable enough to work on Defence and speed as well.

Using Kimi's example, though slightly modified, I have 100 HP, 20 speed 30 stache. I can only super-block if my current hp is 50 (Note, if my Max hp is 50, it'd be 25 instead, as it's only usable when my hp is half my maximum amount). With 50 hp left, penguin hits me for roughly 40 damage, supposedly. With my current speed, this would be around a 1% (maybe less, depending on point-of-view) chance of a super-block, but I acquire it.

Not only do I block all of this damage, but penguin gets hit for 10 or 20 hp (Again, depending on preference) in reflected damage (Altered by his own defence stat... if he had none, he'd receive full damage, but if he had 5 defence, he'd only receive 5 (or 15) hp damage.)


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: jdaster64 on April 17, 2012, 09:10:39 am
As blocks aren't particularly effective on 1 damage hits, and crits typically aren't effective on normal NPCs(crits in the long run can't help you with training), counterattacks shouldn't be either. I find those lucky instances with blocks and crits really help only in PvP, where you're bound to get hit in the higher than 5s.

Sure, it would help in PvP, but if I can't use an aspect of a stat for much at all in outside of PvP-combat, I don't think it would weigh into my decision to upgrade it.  What I could see is something like Paper Mario 2, in that you have a chance of doing a Superguard, but only if it were to deal fixed, enemy-DEF-piercing damage (as in Paper Mario 2), possibly increasing as your ATK goes up.  Anything proportional to damage taken or that is affected by enemy DEF rather quickly becomes useless.

I guess what my opinion boils down to regardless of what happens is going to be this: in reality, crits, blocks, and whatever other "lucky" hits might be devised don't really amount to much in the long run; sure, they'll make a battle a bit faster, but you certainly won't be able to count on them coming when you need them.  Personally, I'd love to see STACHE gain something else completely apart from lucky/crit/whatever hits, like the shop discounts are.  Item/coin drops are pretty much the only integral and potentially changeable part of the battle system that are not affected by any stat, so it seems like that'd be a natural fit.  Fits in well with shop discounts, too.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Penguin4478 on April 17, 2012, 07:25:29 pm
Something else, huh...? How about increasing the length of buffs by 2/5 of a second for each stache point? Although 2/5 might be too little or too much, I think the general idea was given.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Razz the Koopa on April 18, 2012, 03:24:27 pm
Long time no see, everyone.

I have to agree with Garro on this one, but lets add a twist.

What if Stache were to increase EXP gaion by 1 point for every 2 points of Stache, and decrease lost EXP upon "losing a life" to an enemy by 1 point per Stache Point?

In simpler terms...

Every 2 Stache Points = 1 Extra EXP point.
Every 1 point of Stache = 1 point of EXP kept when defeated by an enemy.

Alternatively, it could be a 1% instead of 1 point for this.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: jdaster64 on April 19, 2012, 10:00:53 am
It'd have to be percent, as the effect of 1 fewer EXP lost is barely noticeable if you have 100 EXP or more (the current formula is current EXP / 6).  EXP lost being implemented in such a way I could certainly see as being useful to some, but increasing EXP gain sort of takes away from the effect of the EXP+ badge (which is not too hard to get, especially compared to how hard it used to be), and would make it far too easy to level up.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Penguin4478 on April 21, 2012, 01:55:50 pm
Why not make alterations to special attacks?
Basically, when casting a sp. attack you have a chance (which is the same as crit chance GRANTED by STACHE) the damage, buff/debuff, or heal increases in effectiveness by a random booster 50-75%?


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Razz the Koopa on May 08, 2012, 10:39:58 am
I can see your point with the EXP Badge, which is why if doing a %, you could cut it off at 10-15%. Most likely 10%. That way, you wouldn't be able to keep gaining boosts per stache.


Title: Re: Improving the Stache Stat
Post by: Penguin4478 on May 08, 2012, 02:46:34 pm
How about if stache has a random chance of applying "Lucky" (different effects compared to previously stated Luckys) on yourself for 20-30 seconds whenever you attack an enemy and the hit lands? In this case, Lucky would be that your critical hit chance and block chance are multiplied by a random RATIONAL number between 2-3. Of course, the chance that "Lucky" actually occurs would be extremely low, probably .1% per stache point.